Setups from Friday 11 10 23

_strange_
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2023 12:59 pm

Setups from Friday 11 10 23

Post by _strange_ »

Watching alot of Al Brooks stuff lately, lots of little things are clicking with me especially now that I have some chart experience. I tried a year ago but I was just so lost, but now Im seeing alot of overlap.

What do you think about these setups. First green arrow I was very tempted to take but didnt. Strong unbroken trend up, pulls back into congestion. Lots of dojis. Bear bar finishing on its low breaking out of the congestion to the downside. Why not buy the close of that bear bar or place a buy limit 1 tick below the bear bar and use an ATM of 3 points both ways? The congestion is about 1.5 points and a measured move makes the whole thing about 3 points if you buy the low. This is one thing that I have noticed from al brooks, his method of trading ranges and what we call congestion he calls a limit order market and makes alot of sense. Usually in that setup we wait for a breakout the bottom and a bear bar finishing on its low then wait for a bull bar to buy 1 tick above, but doing that makes the setups kinda rare.

Second setup is the break of the bull trend up. Bull trend up is a breakout of the overnight high and opening high. During the pullback that breaks the trendline, I think its reasonable to pay attention and assume that breakout area might be tested. That little short term trendline down gets an obvious overshoot of the bottom and reverses up after testing the breakout area. Key being the overshoot. Another one I was really tempted on.

Third trade is up higher in the day, but is another setup similar to the first green arrow. Buy the close of the bear bar or limit buy order below the bear bar, and an ATM of 3 points. ATM strategy based on size of congestion area and its measured move target. I do not scalp, I always go for 1:1 minimum and these setups all look like good candidates?

These setups are obvious breakouts. These are also the same thing. First trade is sideways and breakout to the bottom, second trade is chopping downward with a breakout on the bottom, third is a repeat of the first. All the same except one is downward and the other 2 are sideways, but thats technically the same thing isnt it? A trend is a range tilted on an angle and kinda operate the same way with breakouts and overshoots, and being a pretty strong uptrend day the context is good.
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Screenshot 2023-11-13 045033.png (328.22 KiB) Viewed 2035 times
Second image, what do you think about these setups from the overnight of the same day? Marco didnt mark any of these but I thought they were pretty good. I wasnt at my PC at the time but the 2 blue trades I would have taken 100% every time considering the context of the breakout, and the previous days downtrend that ended in a range, that broke out both sides with a double bottom. You could also consider the downtrend of the previous day a breakout of the previous 4 days worth of choppy sideways trading.

Lots of breakouts happening. Any thoughts and feedback would be helpful.

Is this how we try to predict possible trend days? These sort-of breakouts? Im really trying to keep pushing to understand more and not get stagnant and stuck, if its possible to clue-in to trends then runners would help profits.
Screenshot 2023-11-13 051122.png
Screenshot 2023-11-13 051122.png (126.32 KiB) Viewed 2035 times
eric-pal
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:08 am

Re: Setups from Friday 11 10 23

Post by eric-pal »

YES!!!! You are seeing well and I want to add the next piece to help decipher things a bit further.

Context of Friday is the strongest of bull trends (after the breakout from trading range). This means that contextually there is 1 direction, and there will be traps (and traps take a little more experience), however you are seeing where they are occurring. So what is the "next piece" which help to decide to "take or not take"?

With each "pattern", with respect to breakout, pullback, channel, trading range, there are expectations. The important portion of this is WHERE DOES THE STOP NEED TO GO!!!! This helps to answer what one "takes or does not". Example, first chart, first trade, potential trap . . . Whee is the stop that you know you are wrong? . . . ahhhh good question! Potentially that stop is 10 points away because the trap may happen multiple times - - - NOTE if reading the prices consistently through the bar (if it moves that way), she will "break and keep going". That is the conundrum. For the 2nd case on the 1st chart, the stop has to be far away because retracements can keep going, which does make this a much more difficult trade to take especially with the bear bar strength just before, so a higher low would be appreciated. That last trade on the first chart though - - - ahhhhh. No brainer as many of the other "questions" self answer as to where the stop has to go, what the context is, and the potentials.

On the second graph, the first trade is tricky because one is "buying the breakout" with much overlap. The assumption is "it will break" but will it? You are seeing that it is being decided. The issue is Top of trading range potential (which you see). I would avoid this first one, however the bopb!!! trap short, I like this one. The third trade also but recognize that it didn't move lower so less trap potential. On the 3rd one, where is your stop that you know you are wrong? That is the tricky part on that one.

The last piece on this is the recognition of what makes these days more difficult. First, they are rarer occurrances, but happen more frequently when there are extreme overbought/oversold conditions. Bull case of this is perhaps 1-2x a month. So an understanding of what has been happening on the daily chart can help "set the table". The second is, it is a result of FOMO throughout the day. Bulls recognize that things are extreme, but prices are not pulling back, so "they buy very small" to not miss something, but that risk management is what many forget. It may not be standard sizing because the stop of "where is one wrong" can be much wider than many realize - as opposed to when prices are more in balance. When things are more "in balance" -> prices do not move as far, but the scalps happen more cleanly. It is a tradeoff that requires balancing.

GREAT WORK!!
_strange_
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2023 12:59 pm

Re: Setups from Friday 11 10 23

Post by _strange_ »

Feels great to get some encouraging feedback.

A follow up question. Obviously on trade 1 of the first chart, a 10 point stoploss is not logical for my skill level. Al brooks would probably buy more scaling in as the market goes down to lower his average entry price, but for a mortal like me, I was thinking a plan like noted in the attached image would be rather logical.

If you consider the expectation the bear bar will finish on its low and then immediately reverse, could we define a trade that uses the measured move of the congestion/range? The little range is about 2.5 points top to bottom, couldnt I use an ATM of 3 points, that would put the stoploss below the lower measured move and then just cut the trade out if it drops below it? Constructed in this way and in the strong upward context if its a successful trade a 1:2 R:R is very logical. 1:1 still makes a loser not sting as much still. I really like the idea of buying low with more profit room in uptrends like this.
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Its difficult to find good entries on strong trend days because the market just keeps going up without many 2 leg corrections and when you do actually get one, its at the reversal point and youve missed the move. Other possibilities is just buying first entry bull bars on shallow corrections with the plan to swing trade a small position size and trail your stop below each swing/pivot. The best is probably to recognise the potential for a trend day beforehand and be prepared with a runner and a plan to swing.

Thats the thing about what AL Brooks says. I would certainly be uncomfortable with a 10 point stoploss, but to them it doesnt matter because if it goes up from their entry price they are happy, and if it pulls back, they buy more as its selling off knowing its going to rise again AT LEAST to their original entry price or below it, even if the trend is over the probabilities of at least a double top is very very high.

Yesterday was another day where entries were rare. The CPI spike up had a shallow correction and immediately went sideways and its very tempting to just buy anywhere (mack marked the a break lower triple test there which was good because I again was tempted to buy there for the same reasons and another failed break lower a little later, again tempting) BUT there is not yet any defined stoploss location/swing low to place a stoploss. Maybe MES would be a good place be on days like that.
eric-pal
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:08 am

Re: Setups from Friday 11 10 23

Post by eric-pal »

Very good thinking.

Once one gets "beyond" entries, it becomes a navigation into the "money management" frame and this completely changes the game because it is about measuring and probabilities. The key underlying question is - 1. When do I know I am wrong, 2. What size position based on where "I am wrong" is needed so this trade is simply another trade?

Second, nice work on recognizing when low probability is happening more and more. They sometime happen "stacked" in series, as oversold turned to overbought.

As you review Mack's charts, consider the trades he is taking and where that stop loss is. His contextual reads fit this part into the whole.

Finally, reviewing the above I think you can see how the MES does play a useful part. With respect to the trading range, the question is whether that becomes the method of measurement. If it is an exhaustive move it just represents the transition at the top. A more important juncture might be 50% of the uptrend, or as seen yesterday, where the spike converts -> this was reinforced into a triple lower support as prices came back down to that inflection point, and that established the lower trading range reference.

Your vision has significantly changed this year!!

Hopefully helpful and good trades to you!
_strange_
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2023 12:59 pm

Re: Setups from Friday 11 10 23

Post by _strange_ »

Eric was I correct to think or suspect that this rally attempt would fail and selloff just like all the others for the last 7-8 trading days? Did you have any suspicion about this? Do you consider this at all in your trading or do you just "let the chart tell you" whats going to happen and sit down to trade with no real suspicion either way?
eric-pal
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:08 am

Re: Setups from Friday 11 10 23

Post by eric-pal »

That is a great question!!! Definitely a sign of maturation from experience.

Here is the deal, it is the real answer but is also difficult. There is a ton of BS in trading education. Honestly it is just horrific. A lot of what is on youtube is false too. However, there are essentially two parts to all of this:

1. Finding an edge.
- rules about how that process should appear
-risk management around refining that edge
- How to train an edge.

2. Psychology (actually this should all be considered under management of fear and uncertainty).

So many say, "I'm the edge". This is patently false and just stupid. The edge is "the edge", however one's vision may not see, understand, or be able to process the edge. In refining one's vision, one is simply working to "see the market as it is". Nothing more or less, and from THAT, the edge becomes more apparent.

However, the market revolves around uncertainty. There are counteracting balancing forces between buyers and sellers, and because of that, every trade has uncertainty around it. Let's say a trade has a 90% probability - - - what is the chance of losing 10x in a row? - - - :). IT ISN'T 0! However, traders want it to be 0! And that is the crux. [note easily calculable using Binomial Theorum] but essentially 0.10^10. Note a key factor of an individual being able to see 90%.

Therefore the first issue is seeing the edge, and the second becomes being able to operate and become familiar with the uncertainty of trading. The probability aspect of a trade, and managing the uncertainty aspect of a trade are not the same thing, and it is the latter that Mark Douglas work's to address.

But that brings us back to your question - - low probability events can and do happen. The nasty selloff of the markets leading up to the massive rally, that is two low probability events occurring and having one fueling another. How often does that happen? Not so often, but it does happen.

And that is the point, the best way to manage the unknown with respect to the probabilities of "this trade" and the risk of ruin because we are not going to always be correct. I took a loser this morning. It was a trap situation and I realized I was on the wrong side. When the buyers were taken out, another buy opportunity presented itself in a better situation, but if I had held the initial buy, it would have been a 2.5 point loss. Instead, it became a 1 point loss which became easy to make back soon afterwards.

So, as a long way to say this, the market is all about probability, and therefore we draw areas of S&R and channels to visualize what the higher probability situations often encompass. Yesterday's H, L, Close . . . etc are points of interest. However, we use local PA to define "what is happening now" and to understand where we are with respect to the market cycle. Trend -> trade it this way until it no longer is. Trading range -> this takes more experience because it expresses itself in many different varieties and ways (with lower probability too). Note, there are transitions between trends and trading ranges, and some of the quizzes cover this.

So the big picture frames state, and the local PA outlines direction, probability, and potentials. And sometimes low probability things happen, and we can see these and say "interesting". Often this becomes when there is unscheduled news and the market "shifts" or there is a quick reaction that isn't expected. It happens. However, with experience we see and recognize these aspects for what they are, and if trades present themselves, we know what to do.

Last point, "trades present themselves". This is based around an edge, and not how "we feel". So many are "looking for trades". . . . That isn't how this works and inhibits the learning process. What if a trade doesn't show up today? A trade isn't supposed to show up. This is a misconception based around trying to create certainty around an uncertain environment and event. And that is what makes trading very difficulty - - - when? Don't know, have to wait. How long? Still don't know. . . The edge exists around probabilities (note there are ways modify edges with testing and to work with lower probability too). How many trades will present themselves? Well, 1-2 very high probability trades are expected about every day. However on low probability days, they visually appear a little differently. Congestion on strong trending days isn't the same as congestion on a normal day. This takes discrimination though. Some alternatives become using other markets. How does one know when that becomes possible? What is the %Mack ratio and are the charts & decisions very similar? Note, this is with respect to working with a live market (don't have to trade it but can mark when would enter), vs Mack's chart. Why - because this is testing one's ability to read what is there. So many think Mack is marking afterwards. This tells me exactly how much experience they have. Does he mark some afterwards, yes because he may not have seen certain trades, and for those who took them, the probability may be there based on the context. However, it is all based on context.

One of the more useful exercises, having had experience of what context and targets are, is to work back through a bunch of charts to see how trends behave and how they appear and their variety. Then, run the simulation and see how they appear w/o the expectation of the "static chart". :). Often an enlightening exercise.

And to cap things off, as I have been reading quite a bit, a bit of truth I stumbled on again with respect to trading:

Don't ask why something happened. More appropriate would be to ask "what just happened" The reasons of "why" can change all the time, and be different every single time. . . Going to war the market has to go down. . . Might want to review 2003 again. "What" is apparent on the chart. :). Why is "made up afterwards" and isn't necessarily correct (because who can really verify?).

Hopefully helpful and good trades to you!
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